Ep.3 - I’m Not the Man I Used to Be

Listen to full episode:

Paul reads an article written by Carol for The Silver Chain’s August 1977 newsletter, where she recaps her solo journey to The Lifestyles convention in San Diego and meets the organization's charismatic leader, Dr. Robert McGinley. 

Paul and Nora meet with Dr. McGinley and his wife Geri, who are now in their 80s and living alone with a foggy sense of the past. But they do remember Carol and The Silver Chain…

Episode 3 Transcript

COLD OPEN

In July 1977, sixty couples attend The Silver Chain’s fifth annual summer campout, a lively weekend filled with volleyball, swimming, and “lots of very special moments.” Only two things are missing from the event: sunshine – it’s the group’s first rainy campout in their short history -- and Carol. Who had other plans.

Woman’s Voice as “Carol”: “While many of our members were cavorting at the KOA campground, I hopped a plane to sunny California for Lifestyles ‘77. The convention was held at the Town and Country Hotel in San Diego. I must say they provided very good facilities.”  

Lifestyles ‘77, an annual convention open to swingers from all around the world. Carol flies solo, completely energized by a weekend filled with dances, a luau and of course plenty of opportunities for hotel room interludes. 

But sex isn’t on Carol’s agenda.. She’s there for the primary purpose of gathering new materials on emerging lifestyles for her New Horizons discussions. Carol fills her days attending such lively panel discussions as “The Politics of Sexual Experience,” “How to Be Friends with Your Lovers Wife” and “The Cosmic Orgasm.” I kind of want to take that one.

A wide variety of speakers participate in the panels, ranging from doctors, authors and sociologists to club leaders like Carol herself. Here’s Kimmer, Carol’s daughter:

Kimmer : sometime after Dad died, I was at her house and she handed me a letter and she said, here, read this. Okay. And it was a letter she had written to Dad from that event. 

She was proud of herself, but she was super happy about. Walking tall and and doing this thing. And she acted like it was no big deal. And I'm like, you spoke in front of how many people? And I think she said about 250 people. And this was not a big deal to you. Oh, no. Where were you in my life. Most people are more afraid to speak in front of people than they are to die. 

The panel Carol participates in, “Emergence of Growth Swinging: A Social Sexual Development” is led by Dr. Robert McGinley, who is the founder of The Lifestyles Organization, the group operating this convention.

McGinley leaves an impression on Carol – so much so that she plans to use his talk as the basis for an upcoming New Horizons in November. Which leads me to wonder: what impression – if any – did Carol leave on McGinley?

Dr Bob: Oh, Silver Chain. Yeah, I know a lot about them. 

Paul: You do? 

Dr Bob: Oh, yeah. Sure do.

I’m Paul Ditty, and this is Time Capsule: The Silver Chain.

After reading about Dr. Robert McGinley in The Silver Chain’s newsletter,  I’m eager to learn more about him. I mean, he sounds pretty important to the swinging movement in the 1970s. 

And what I find out – from the materials I locate – is that McGinley is like the godfather of swinging. In several articles, McGinley credits himself with coining the term “The Lifestyle” to describe swingers.  And he’s on talk shows like Donahue and Geraldo in the 70s and 80s to speak as an expert on swinging. One writer even proclaims McGinley to be “The Christopher Columbus of Sexuality.” That’s a statement that could be taken in two very different ways. Like did he explore and discover sexuality, a destination no one believed he would find? Or did he invade, pillage, even kill to steal sexuality from others?

Unsure.

But the first thing I notice instantly in clips of McGinley is his confidence. 

Dr. Bob (The Lifestyle - Swinging in America): Hello, I'm Dr. Robert McGinley, and it's a pleasure to spend a few moments with you. I have the pleasure of being president of the LIFESTYLES Organization, which is an organization devoted to swinging social, recreational sex. 

McGinley sits behind a desk, fit and barrel chested, his hair neatly trimmed in what I’d call an insurance salesman coif. And I say that in the most flattering way possible, because McGinley exudes the air of a top salesman. Someone who would get a clear acrylic plaque at a national insurance conference. I'm ready to buy coverage I know I don’t need just by listening to the guy. 

Dr. Bob (The Lifestyle - Swinging in America): The media has not ever portrayed swinging as swinging really is. They've never, to my knowledge, gone into the relationships among the people themselves and how this affects their lives and their livelihood and how it affects their relationship with their neighbors in their church and with their children, and how it affects the happiness of the relationship itself. And to me, that is a shame. And it's an indictment as well. 

I believe that the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, while not perfect, is the best form of government there ever was. I don't want to see either one changed, reinterpreted in any manner. The Bill of Rights is a magnificent document. Leave it alone. Don't allow anyone to take these rights away from us. 

I’m getting really caught up in this. In a way I didn’t expect. And I think it’s because Dr. Bob – as I’ve grown to call him —  is appealing to a group of people shunned by society. Advocating for a part of the population that operates primarily in the shadows. 

And Dr. Bob is a pioneer in organizing this subculture. He founds his swinging club, The Wide World of Contemporary People in 1969 with his second wife Geri, the club’s motto borrowed from a Jack London quote: “The proper function of a man is to live, not to exist.” 

Four years later, Carol and George and the founders of The Silver Chain embark on a journey similar to that of Bob and Geri, only fifteen hundred miles away. And with Carol sadly no longer living, my hope is that learning more about McGinley and his group could lead me to gain a better understanding of The Silver Chain.

The Wide World of Contemporary People is an overnight success. Like The Silver Chain, they run dances – or socials – at a local hotel for members to get to know one another. But unlike The Silver Chain, Bob and Geri’s club meets weekly on Saturday night for organized swing parties, parties which prove to be so popular that the couple turns their entire home into a place for its members to gather, socialize and get it on.

Dr. Bob (The Lifestyle - Swinging in America): Welcome to Club Wide World. It's good to have you. 

Club Wide World is many things, of course, but we have on premises swing parties and this is where we hold them. 

Very important in a party house, two bathrooms. And then in this side, it's kind of a television room, but it's also, well, if you'll pardon the expression, kind of a make out room.

MUSIC

Zane: As a younger kid, I didn't know what my grandfather did. I knew he had a big house and there was this giant room with all these beds, different levels, and they were fun to go in there and jump. 

Around, you know… [laughs] 

This is Zane. McGinley’s grandson.

Zane: I grew up in Anaheim, and of course, my grandfather, Dr. Robert McGinley. His club is just blocks from Disneyland. Knott's Berry Farm. 

We only really went over there for holidays, you know, so. I just didn't have the exposure until I was actually there.

The exposure Zane speaks of all begins in the late 1980s with a few drawings.

Zane: My parents were very evangelical Christian. I was quite a little Bible thumper myself, and so I was oblivious to that world and sex pretty much in general until I had a falling out with my own faith and religion at 14. My very evangelical father had found some pictures I was drawing of monsters, the spider man, you know, typical 14 year old kid stuff. 

Zane’s father does what any reasonable parent would do in this situation. No, not art school. Zane’s dad sends him to an exorcist.

Zane: These other three guys came out and they all went into a room with me and continued to explain that there was a demonic presence in my life and that I probably had demons in me and and it scared the crap out of me. But the more I cried, the more I protested, the worse it got. You know, I'd be sitting there, you know, there's no demon. And one of them just kept yelling for its name. And, you know, it was traumatic…

Eventually Zane does go full on Linda Blair – by acting his way out of an exorcism. And with this comes a crisis of faith.

Zane: I'm thinking, wait a minute, you know, if this is all real. Why? Why did I just have to fake that? Why are these pastors telling me I had a demon in me and a demonic influence around me? If that's true, why wasn't it there? Why did I have to fake that? 

It wasn't making a lot of sense to me. And eventually this all came to a head, and my father and I had a rather stupid argument and and I left. I just turned 15 and I can think of only one place to go was my grandfather's house. So I went there, crawled in through his bedroom window. 

It’s 1989. And when Zane arrives, his grandfather’s not home. Giving the fifteen-year-old plenty of time to explore.

Zane: So I was there by myself and, I, of course, come across the Playboy here or there. But when you're in a house designed for sexual activity and there are mountains of VHS tapes and DVDs of pornography… it didn't take long to put two and two together. I mean, within a day I had to realize what was really going on here and what everything was about. 

His parents try to convince him to come home. But for Zane, there’s no turning back. 

Zane: Once I had gone to my grandfather's house, it was over. There was no way I was going to leave an environment as a 15 year old kid that was made for the celebration of sexuality. 

at that age, who wants to leave a club house like that, You know, free reign. And there's beautiful women everywhere, you know. So I stayed and I'd been there about three weeks. I came home from school and Ron Jeremy was there with a film crew. 

Yes, disgraced porn star Ron Jeremy, a man whose legacy has aged about as well as that of Christopher Columbus.  

Zane: They occasionally rented out the house for filming, and he was filming in my kitchen and, you know, my eyes popped out of my head. You know, it's like I just made my breakfast there. 

 You know, hours ago. And there's this rather round–

round hairy guy defiling my kitchen…

I say that is a point to make it. Appear how drastic it was for me in a change from a strict evangelical home to literally overnight to being in a place where sexuality was not just open but celebrated. You know, it's quite the eye opener for a 15 year old. 

McGinley enlists Zane to help set up for the Club Wide World’s Friday night socials. Dances often held at a Days Inn Hotel in nearby Fullerton. 

Zane: It usually be in a hotel banquet room. You know, it was a dance with the DJ. There was a little bit stricter rules on what they could wear and things like that. But, you know, occasionally you go and you just set up, you know, tablecloths or fliers on the tables or something like that. 

However,  it’s the weekly Saturday parties that require the most work.

Zane:In the backyard, there's a big pool Jacuzzi area. You got to put out all these tables and chairs. You got to make sure the whole house is vacuumed and cleaned and fresh sheets on all of the beds, which was a lot of sheets. One room was one giant mattress layout, you know, with four different beds and then another room. There were 13 different beds at various levels and cubby holes. 

And then we had a cool round leather couch in the living room. And in front of that was a just a giant mat that people enjoyed in front of the fireplace. They had a banquet table, you know, for food and drinks and and, you know, every TV played the same video throughout the house and music, great stereo system. They always had an awesome stereo system. There was an area in the main room that was a dance floor, and they even had a disco ball. Yeah, it was it was meant to Every area of the house was meant not just for socializing, but having a good time.

Zane confirms that on every TV plays the same adult film. No Hogan’s Heroes at this party. This place is a total adult playland. Dr. Bob’s only area of refuge from the world he’s created, is an upstairs apartment. 

Zane: It's a studio apartment. It has his own kitchen and bathroom, and he always lived upstairs, you know, because the whole downstairs was a swinger club. 

And Zane’s area of refuge? Well, it’s beneath the staircase leading to his grandfather’s apartment.

Zane: I didn't have a bedroom. What I had was the closet under those stairs, like Harry Potter. But I didn't have to sleep in the closet and sleep anywhere in the house I wanted. But all of my belongings were in that closet, So yeah. So my first chore Saturday mornings was to put all of my stuff in that closet to hide any any proof of my existence. 

That’s right. It’s time for Zane to scram.

Zane: I'd be out the door by seven and I'd go find something to do. Usually skateboard in the park or later learning to play guitar and…

My grandfather always told me 230. Right. Party's over at 230, so once 230 hit, I walked in that house whether the party was over or not. You know. I just went in and yeah. And sometimes people, if they were there, they'd be like, What is this kid here? Yeah. But most, most people, just like it would ignore me, you know, when I was younger. 

Despite Zane’s existence in this adult world, he and Dr. Bob never discuss what’s really going on.

Zane: it was just known. I knew what he did. I knew what was involved. I knew the same. But he and I never sat down and had a discussion about it at all.

Paul: So when you were helping set up for the parties and putting sheets on a massive bed. You didn't ask for an explanation? 

Zane: No. 

I respected what my grandfather did. I have a very close relationship with him And we we got along great. You know, he was a good father figure to me in that, you know, in a lot of ways. And I saw him as as a hero of the sexual revolution, you know, who brought this wonderful freedom to people. 

MUSIC

Nora and Paul: How do you how do you get in this car? Just press the button. We. How do we do it? Just press it. There you go. Whoa. Okay, Here we are. 

That’s me, picking up one of our show’s producers, Nora McInerny, at the Santa Ana Airport in Orange County, California. Please don’t judge Nora for being unable to open a car door. It’s complicated. Besides,  I’m super grateful that she’s flown in from Phoenix to assist in my interview with Dr. Bob.

The first time I speak with Dr. Bob over the phone, he’s gracious and warm. He begins talking about The Lifestyle instantly. Zero holding back. Which surprises me in comparison to other discussions I’ve had. He practically suggests that we meet in person before I do.

So Nora and I are in the car, parking in front of a nondescript home in Anaheim. Ready to crawl into that same bedroom window Zane did, 35 years later. We’re going to see what Club Wide World’s headquarters are like today.

Only we don’t actually need to climb through the window. We were invited. Dr. Bob is expecting us. So we ring the doorbell instead.

SFX: DOORBELL

—

Dr Bob: Have a seat. 

Geri: Well, you guys make yourself at home. 

Paul: Thank you. 

At eighty nine years old, Dr. Robert McGinley is welcoming and quick on his feet. When we enter, Geri stands beside him, not sipping a Gin and Tonic as she may have in the golden days of their club, but instead holding an Ensure. Thankfully, Dr. Bob offers us something else.

Dr Bob: I want to get me a ginger ale, if you like one. 

Paul : Sure I'll have a ginger ale. [That sounds wonderful]

We pour room temp Canada Dry into plastic tumblers, and set them beside stacks of books and magazines – ranging from a book titled “Swap Clubs: A Study in Contemporary Sexual Mores” to a Penthouse Magazine Swing Directory from the early 80s and  a fair share of other X-rated material. Bob and Geri have clearly prepared for our visit. In fact, the only thing Dr. Bob’s forgotten is his hearing aid.

Geri: They don't help a lot, but they help a little bit. 

Dr Bob: Yeah. I don't know if the batteries are any good hon. 

Geri: Well, there's more here. 

Dr Bob: I know. Just a minute. Be right back. 

Bob leaps from his chair often, zooming room to room, usually in search of a photo, book or another artifact that represents his life and accomplishments. It takes us some time to get started on learning his life story in part because he has so much he wants to share. But eventually, he takes us to the beginning. 

Dr Bob: I was born. 1933. I have not much memory of those days, naturally, but. My folks. My dad had a job in the shipyard, building cargo ships in the war effort. We moved to what we call Lakewood. 

Lakewood, California. One of the first post- World War Two planned communities, where veterans could obtain a 30-year fixed mortgage at 4%. On the community’s first day of sales, over 30,000 people line up to walk through a row of seven model homes. So new is Lakewood when Bob moves there with his family, that he is bussed to high school in the neighboring city of Long Beach.

Dr Bob: I enjoyed Wilson High School. I was in sports in that time running. I ran the 100 yard race, won quite a few. 

Bob becomes leader of his Boy Scout troop at fifteen, and proudly  wears his uniform and merit badges while sipping soda pops at the local fountain. It’s at this local fountain that Bob meets an evangelical Baptist named Bonnie. The two marry the day Bob graduates high school. And they have five children in close succession. 

Dr Bob: After high school. I got in the aerospace industry. I was fascinated by airplanes in those days. Still, I am. I spent a whole lifetime and it seems like many, many years involved with aircraft. As an engineer, electronics engineer. 

When Bob is thirty, he and his family are shipped to Japan where Bob is tasked with training fighter pilots on landing systems he helped develop. Over the next two years,   Bonnie studies the bible with other Christian wives while Bob witnesses a new and refreshing spiritual and sexual openness in Japan. It causes an awakening of sorts for Bob, something that puts his religious beliefs in jeopardy. By the time Bob and family move back to the states in 1965, skirts are shorter. The pill is on the market. And the phrase “sexual revolution” is on the tip of every news reporter’s tongue. 

[News Clip]

Dr Bob: being young, I. Of course, I was interested in in sex. 

The allure of a newfound sexual freedom is too much for Bob to resist. He subscribes to Playboy, grows a beard and finds himself joining co-workers at strip clubs. His interactions with Bonnie grow volatile, their marriage tenuous, but it’s not enough to stop Bob from dipping his toe into this burgeoning world of sexual permissiveness.

Dr Bob: Swinging wasn't that organized in those days? It was mostly by ads and local newspapers and personal ads. You would write a letter to one of the advertisers and they responded. You met others. And just on and on. 

Paul: Did you send pictures with with the letters when you would write them, when you would respond to an. 

Dr Bob: Not often. Some people did. But. Social sex wasn't that acceptable to the society of the time. So people were careful about things that they could be identified by. So again, it was just as often coded. Mm hmm. But do you, if you were involved in throwing in, you could read the code immediately. What it was all about. 

Despite Bob’s adherence to this code and his cautious effort to keep his explorations a secret, Bonnie learns of Bob’s correspondence with another swinger, who happens to be the wife of a military officer, and reports it to the Air Force. Bob loses his security clearance, his job and his marriage. 

Bob drives to San Francisco to appeal the Air Force’s decision, and stays on to spend some time in the newly formed Sexual Freedom League, a swinging organization formed by a man named Jeff Poland. Who legally changed his name to Jeff Fuck. And then sued the telephone company when they wouldn’t publish his name in the phone book and won. But really it was Jeff who lost in the end because his name remained Jeff Fuck.

So this is Bob’s life in 1968. He’s at one of the Sexual Freedom League’s parties when he first meets Geri. 

Dr. Bob: Pretty. Young at that time. I don't know if I ever grew up, as a matter of fact. And being young of course. Social sex was an interest. And. Geri and I had met. We've been married ever since. That's her on the left there next to my Navy picture. Oh, wow. She was quite attractive. 

There’s just one small problem: Geri is married.

Geri: I was married to a man who was very controlling. He felt that he could expect anything of me. Uh. But it was. It was not a happy relationship. 

Bob and Geri are drawn to each other instantly. And for Bob this is his chance to have an emotionally monogamous relationship where each partner can still enjoy social sex AKA swinging. 

In an interview with Terry Gould for his 1999 book “The Lifestyle,” Geri says “I wanted the sexual freedom of that culture, but I wanted the conservative element, love and romance, and permanent relationship from which to enjoy that freedom. Bob’s ideas touched all the right chords in me.”

Geri divorces her husband, and in 1969 Bob and Geri wed at the Frank Lloyd Wright designed Wayfarer’s Chapel in Rancho Palos Verdes with their newfound swinging family in attendance. They forgo  the traditional wedding march in favor of Frank Sinatra’s “My Way.”  

Geri: We lived in a place called Highland Greens. And so we we would have parties there. That's how we got started. 

Dr. Bob: The major part of swinging was couples. There were some single people involved, but most swing clubs. Couples only. 

Paul: Why? 

Dr. Bob: Well, that's easy. If you're a couple, equal number of women to men. If you had a club that was open to singles, mostly men. 

Bob and Geri’s house parties grow in attendance, prompting the newlyweds to form their club The Wide World of Contemporary People, or as it's affectionately called by its members: “Bob and Geri’s Club Wide World.”

Dr. Bob: We ran an ad in Long Beach Press Telegram and the Santa Ana Register, advertising our club. They would have to make an appointment and come to interview us. 

And if we liked them, we would invite them to join us. They had to fill out an application. There was a cost. But that cost included the very first party. We wanted to make sure they were going to fit in. 

Sounds amazing, right? One small catch. From Bob and Geri’s previous marriages, they have eight children combined. They’re practically a real-life Brady Bunch. Except on Saturdays. 

Geri: Children? Oh, yeah. I had three and Bob had five. Yeah. So they saw a lot of hotels. When we would have parties, we would put on parties. So the kids had to go to a hotel, which was not good for them or us, but that was just the way it was. 

Nora: How old are what did your kids know about your. 

Geri: They knew everything they did. Yeah. 

Nora: What do you think they thought of it? 

Geri: Well, they kind of made fun of it, but nothing. I mean, they accept they accepted us as. Who we were. We were very we were very social people and did many, many, many social events. 

And this social life fuels Bob and Geri’s entire existence. So much so that Bob creates a guide to connect swingers all around the country.

Dr. Bob: NASCA was a company that I created, North American Swing Club Association. 

A logo is created for the association – an apple with a single bite taken out of it. Along with the motto: “For those who want more than just one bite.” Look out, Steve Jobs. The logo soon appears on numerous swing club newsletters – including that of The Silver Chain – as a symbol of community, best practices and inclusivity.

It’s in this same train of thought that Bob creates a new night for Club Wide World.

Dr. Bob: Every Wednesday we had the wide world group discussions. that was held here in this room. 

We had great speakers like we had like Al magazine and magazine. 

Paul: Al Freedman. 

Dr. Bob:Al Freedman. Yeah, he became a very close friend. It was in England that he met what's his name. The guy that started. Penthouse. I can't think of his name right now. And that's where he got involved with the magazine. He he created it with the expense of Penthouse. 

If the name Al Freedman rings a bell, it’s because this is the same Al Freedman behind the 1950s Quiz Show scandal, a story detailed in the 1994 film “Quiz Show”, directed by Robert Redford. The real one. Not the one cruising Minnesota shopping malls. 

So it’s post-scandal that Freedman meets Bob Guccione, the founder of Playboy rival Penthouse magazine and goes on to launch Penthouse Forum: The International Journal of Human Relations in 1968, a publication where Dr. Bob becomes a regular contributor. At the mention of Freedman, Bob once again leaps up to retrieve something from another room. But this time he comes back empty-handed. 

Dr. Bob: You're going to have to excuse me of things. I walked in there and I forgot what I was going there for. 

Paul: Oh, that's okay. I do that all the time. 

Dr. Bob: I'm not the man I used to be. Very different. I was pretty sharp with the world then and easily do or talking with him giving you a lot more information. But I just can't anymore. 

Midroll 2

Act Three

In 1979, Bob officially becomes Dr. Robert McGinley with a Ph.D. in psychology from Newport International University. And it’s also around this time that Dr. Bob earns another title.

Dr. Bob (The Lifestyle - Swinging in America): Oh, gee, I don't know if I should talk about this part or not. I'm also a minister. Angels, wizards and all good things. Join with a friend of mine created a new church in California. The Earth Church of the Civic. It wasn't designed on any particular dogma, and it allowed people to have whatever their beliefs were and foot massages when necessary. And it was in that church that I was ordained. It's a pleasure to conduct the marriage of a couple involved in this lifestyle.

MUSIC

Dr. Bob: I married these people here. 

Paul: Oh, and this is you signing the certificate? 

Dr. Bob: Yes.

Paul:  It was. You married two couples, though? 

Dr. Bob: Many. 

And after the vows? Well there’s a good chance the honeymoon is a group affair. Because the majority of these weddings take place at a LIfestyles Convention.

Paul: If I were to walk into one of your lifestyle's conventions, can you describe to me what it was like?

Dr. Bob: Most, you know, we took damn near the whole place. We're talking about 3000 participants. 

The first convention begins with a modest 400 attendees at a ranch.

Dr. Bob: 1973, held at the ranch, a ranch adjacent to the University of California at Riverside, California. 1974 Le Baron Hotel in Buena Park. The 1975 Royal Inn at Buena Park. 

By its second year, the convention – called SWING 74 – gains national press attention, including an article in the New York Times titled “A Convention for the Unconventional.” An erotic masquerade ball becomes a Saturday night tradition, with trophies given to the ball’s king and queen. And attendance more than triples to 1500, with separate excursions planned to Disneyland and the Queen Mary. 

Each year brings the demand for a bigger venue. And with this, an increased need for airfare and lodging – services all provided by Dr. Bob with the nation’s first travel agency dedicated to the swinging community: Lifestyles Tours and Travel.

Dr. Bob: 1976. Quality Inn Hotel Anaheim, California. 1977. Town and Country Hotel. And that was San Diego. And you've seen those pictures? 

The very convention where Dr. Bob and Geri first meet Carol from The Silver Chain.

Geri:  My God, that goes way back. 

Nora: What do you remember about Carol? 

Geri:  Nothing special. I just remember her. And she was very involved with us. 

Dr. Bob:They became friends. Close friends. But of course. They lived a long ways away. Right. But we would get together. They would come here mostly. But I did go to their to their place a couple of times. All I can tell you about them was I thought they were great people. I like them both. I'm glad you brought them up to me. 

Paul:  Did you attend any of their events that they held in Minnesota? 

Dr. Bob: Only a couple of them, but yes, I did. 

Paul:  And what did you think of their organization? 

Dr. Bob:Their organization is quite different from most swing clubs. It was run by the members. Though George and Carol were the principal people, but they had some other, I think it was two couples, I think, that really ran the club. 

With Bob’s help, The Silver Chain is recognized in Penthouse Variations as one of the country’s leading swing clubs, with an article that highlights Carol and George’s involvement.

MALE VOICE READING ARTICLE: “George and Carol, one of the couples comprising Silver Chain’s board of directors, said the couples’ rap sessions, which they moderate, are usually attended by eighty men and women – including some people who are inexperienced in swinging, as well as sophisticated couples who are eager to help them learn. ‘We avoid lecturing,’ said George. ‘New members ask questions and long-time members share what they’ve learned through experience.’”

I tell Bob and Geri about the challenges I’m having in contacting several of The Silver Chain’s members, the many who do not want to talk, and who seem content to keep this part of their past buried.

Paul: Why do you think that is? 

Dr. Bob: That's a good question. They don't want people to think about them. In that regard, they are embarrassed by their feelings. 

We were pretty open with our life. We were known. I've done radio interviews all over the country. I've officiated at other conventions, so we were not hiding from anybody. Our life is our life. I couldn't care less what someone else thought about that. Hmm. That's not common. Most people in swinging were pretty secretive about their activity. I wasn't ashamed with sexuality at all.

Later, Dr. Bob takes me on a tour of the house. 

Dr. Bob:  The House was very different then. just Geri and I live here. That's it. 

I’m totally bummed to find out that the room that once had a giant bed consisting of four mattresses is now a pretty standard guest room. And a little nervous that this room now contains guns. Lots of guns. Resting upright in an unlocked cabinet and ready for use. Also gone is the disco ball that once hung in the living room. And instead, propped on a bookshelf, are father’s day cards from Dr. Bob’s kids, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. 

While Dr. Bob and I are away, Nora asks Geri a question. 

Nora: Do you think that swinging was good for your marriage? 

Geri: I think so. It kept us close. 

MUSIC

Paul: And what was your relationship like with Geri at that time,

Zane: She was not living there at that time because they had gotten divorced before I moved in there. 

Speaking with Bob and Geri, time seems to erase the fractures in their relationship. Bob still refers to Geri as his wife throughout our discussion when reality is: while Zane was living at The Clubhouse – from 1989 to the early 2000s, Bob and Geri were already divorced. The other woman, in this case, was Bob’s work. 

Paul: My takeaway after I met with your grandparents is that this lifestyle was their life. 

Zane: It was their life. It was their every day, you know, Not that they're swinging every day, but they're working on it every day. They're working on the conventions, the club, the NASCA, you know, day in, day out, 24, seven. It was their life. That was it. It was their lifestyle. So for the part, you know, yeah, I think definitely more so than it is for most people who are in the lifestyle. 

He impacted to a lot of lives. I think in a very positive way. How that translated to his own relationships with not just his Geri, but his ex-wife, my grandmother or his children is a different, different subject, you know, a different thing. And I think, you know, he does regret things like like the amount of time spent with his kids or something because he was a workaholic. I mean, a guy would work 16 hours a day. It was always work, work, work, work, work, you know. So sometimes he had a tendency to be a little absent or some people found that to be a little emotionally detached. You know, within our family. 

If Dr. Bob’s grandson is noticing this – then you can believe Geri is. She does the one thing that is considered to be a deception in their marriage: she forms an emotional bond with another man in Club Wide World.

Terry Gould’s “The LIfestyle” details the events leading up to the separation, from Geri’s perspective: “I felt I was not being acknowledged by Bob anymore. We began to fight over the tensions of running a business and a marriage at the same time. I met someone at the club and would look forward to being with this fellow. It was exactly the same as what happens in a normal breakup, except this was in the open.”   

It’s 1985 when Geri divorces Bob to live with her new beau, a swinging cop in the LAPD.

But despite this separation, Bob and Geri continue to host Friday night dances and Saturday night house parties for Club Wide World. And to the crowds who fly in annually for Lifestyles conventions from all around the country, Bob and Geri are still the face of the organization, the swinging lifestyle’s power couple. 

Dr. Bob: 2005 Stardust Resort and Casino Las Vegas 2006 Stardust Resort and Casino. Las Vegas. Great. All those are great ones. And so was the Hotel. 2007 Tuscan Resort and Casino in Las Vegas. 

The Las Vegas convention at the Tuscany Suites and Casino in 2007 is the organization’s Last Dance.

Geri: I think our last dance that we put on in Las Vegas, 13,000 people attended The Last Dance. 

Paul: 13,000 people attended the last dance in Las Vegas. 

Geri: Wiped out the entire hotel. 

Dr. Bob: I don't recall hon. 

Geri: I was more involved in registration. So I knew what was going on. He was the doer. 

13,000 is a lot of swingers. I find out The Tuscany Resort’s convention space spans 37,000 square feet so it is possible. But fact checking Geri isn’t easy. In fact, a lot from 2007 to today is fuzzy at best. In part because Geri suffers from Alzheimers. And due to another event in 2018 that nearly wiped out Bob’s memory.

Dr. Bob:When I had a heart attack sitting right here at this table, Geri was right next to me. Matter of fact, I'm because of her that I'm alive today. She got me down and she knew how to pump air into me because I wasn't breathing. I was unconscious. 

Geri: And I had never done that before. I just knew we call 911 and they said, Did he go on the floor and try doing CPR and don't stop til the paramedics? So we did and they took him to the hospital. 

Dr. Bob:  I was unconscious, as I said. And I was supposed to die, but I didn't. A little too stubborn. 

I didn't know anybody. I lost a lot of memory for a while. That's normal. I've got most of it back today. I’m retired today. So is Geri. Of course. I can't work. So today's a very different world from 20 years ago. I'm less a part of it. 

I don’t know if it was Dr. Bob’s heart attack or Geri’s health issues that brought Bob and Geri back together. Their life story is splintered into vignettes of what they recall. But what I can tell you is that seeing them today, you’d never know they were apart. 

Geri: We are. Oh, come on. Very thankful that you came across this and started writing about us because, as Bob says, we really have a story to tell of someone that you know. 

Paul: Yes. 

Geri: Because we're probably the most popular people you could meet. In those days.  Oh, my God. There must have been thousands and thousands and thousands of people that we went to the years with things that we did. 

Dr. Bob: We had hundreds of friends. Unfortunately, almost everyone is 

MUSIC

Dr. Bob: Actually, I'm sleepy. 

Geri: You need to drink one of your protein drinks. 

Dr. Bob:  What hon? 

Geri: You need to drink more. 

Dr. Bob: I can't hear. 

Geri: You need to drink more of your protein. 

Dr. Bob: Oh, I agree. 

MUSIC

It wasn’t easy telling Dr. Bob and Geri that Carol and George are no longer living. 

Dr. Bob: Well, it was Carol. I forgot her husband's name. George? Yes. They're still alive. 

Paul: They both. They both died. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

And it’s no easier to tell you that – shortly after this interview – Geri also died. Leaving Dr. Bob on his own in this big house – a house once filled with hundreds of couples and the best parties – now surrounded by photos, awards and his many written works that document his life. The remaining artifacts of the man he was. 

Dr. Bob: I didn't write anything to cause anyone to become a swinger. That's not why I wrote it. I wrote it, I guess, for the same reason that I did everything in my life. I just wanted to do it. That's all.

{MUSIC}

I’m Paul Ditty and this is Time Capsule: The Silver Chain.